Ok, this is some stuff to read.

Spamming and trolling can be for some their only purpose to live, as it seems. And anonymity allows so much there, in Mom's basement.

Let us welcome today three individuals (?). I can not claim they are alts, but have to leave that to your sound judgement.

I see a sale on MP, today, 13:31:

Source: Commerce Linden MKT2 Item Sale Description: Order #xxxxx, Item #xxxx (SuccessMaker) 

And only a little bit later, exactly: 2 minutes later i get an email: A new review has been added by SuccessMaker. 

So here we go and read:

Great product but I am disappointed in support.

Posted May 25, 2013 by SuccessMaker 1 star

I bought Mama Allpa Hud because I wanted to feel how to be pregnant. Great HUD! But when I asked for help, somebody from Mama Allpa support kicked me from the group. After that, the someone banned me from Mama Allpa store just because I had a picture of Lyuboff baby in my picks. I just don't understand why is that such a big deal. Does anybody can explain this to me?

Alright?Not enough:At 14:54 i sell a HUD to zZSoniAZz via Marketplace. Great day, is it? not quite, because i get another 5 mintues later the review:

dissatisfied

Posted May 25, 2013 by zZSoniAZz 1 star

I was very happy to find the hud and hoped to meet a mate. The hud seemed to work well, I did not have any problems with the hud so far. But I was threatened by the staff at the store for no reason, I actually asked for the reason and was not given any. When I asked in the group, I was then ejected from the group and called a spammer. I was also called a 'b' person before in the group by the person who was naked at the store, the group members told me it was part of the role play, so I let it go. They later called me a spammer for no reason and ejected me. Looking at the previous review, it was probably because I had lyuboff in my picks. I was never given a reason on why I was treated like that. I had a terrible experience with this hud just by how I was treated by support. I hope no one would have to feel the same way. Sorry, but the product is useless to me at this point.

And in the comments to this, "SecurityChief" already announced to also write a revierw, because, oh wonder. she just bought a HUD as well, at 15:01

I keep documenting as we go along.

[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): v
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): v
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!
[16:23] Angelina (securitychief): I will write a review, I am a military person and believe in truth. I will die for what I believe!

it goes over hours

[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): v
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me

[17:13] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me

no kidding, she continues, and earns then also recognition in her private IMs:
this, she copied then into public chat.

[19:18] Angelina (securitychief): [19:13] Darci Andel: you need to get laid you bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:18] Angelina (securitychief): [19:13] Darci Andel: you need to get laid you bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:18] Angelina (securitychief): [19:13] Darci Andel: you need to get laid you bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:18] Angelina (securitychief): [19:13] Darci Andel: you need to get laid you bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:18] Angelina (securitychief): [19:13] Darci Andel: you need to get laid you bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch
[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch

[19:14] Darci Andel: bitch



She continues...
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): v
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me
[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me

[19:32] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me


for recordings:

dissatisfied

Posted May 25, 2013 by zZSoniAZz 1 star

I was very happy to find the hud and hoped to meet a mate. The hud seemed to work well, I did not have any problems with the hud so far. But I was threatened by the staff at the store for no reason, I actually asked for the reason and was not given any. When I asked in the group, I was then ejected from the group and called a spammer. I was also called a 'b' person before in the group by the person who was naked at the store, the group members told me it was part of the role play, so I let it go. They later called me a spammer for no reason and ejected me. Looking at the previous review, it was probably because I had lyuboff in my picks. I was never given a reason on why I was treated like that. I had a terrible experience with this hud just by how I was treated by support. I hope no one would have to feel the same way. Sorry, but the product is useless to me at this point.

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on May 25, 2013, reshma said:

You spammed the group countless of times and linden labs have a record of those spams.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, YT Recreant said:

You are the same spammer like the other bad review that just arrived two hours ago. You are even poor in disguising your spam attempts. Please, really, get a life!

Flag this comment Delete comment

on May 25, 2013, Neytiri Rosea said:

I have used mama allpa for 3 yrs, have never had any problem with support or the product, maybe you should look at how you have behaved to see if MAYBE your behavior brought it on

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Nicholle Inglewood said:

Ditto from all the above, let me also say, your precious lyuboff babies have nothing to do with Mama Allpa, so why do you keep spamming everyone in chat with the same freakin' phrase over and over and over and over and over again!!! Here's the choo choo train get on it Troll and git out of Dodge!

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, winterthyme said:

I would echo the comments made to this review. MA support is consistently excellent, and the product is outstanding. Your behaviour is doubtless the reason you were removed from the group.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, SecurityChief said:

I was just banned just because I asked why Soni was banned. So, what was the reason for my ban? I am to write a review next.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, SecurityChief said:

Lyuboff does not have a hud in english, so I got yours. But ejecting me for asking questions was very wrong! I am very upset!

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, reshma said:

another alt...

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, SecurityChief said:

I am not another alt.. I am sure Linden Lab will check for alts.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Alotta Starsider said:

You know, it just takes one bad spamming apple to make all the good ones come out. Look at the numbers. This product is wonderful. It is so natural and in tune with a womans body its incredible. Good work YT, don't let one rotten apple tear down the tree....winks...

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Lizabeth Buchanan said:

How many times have you bought the hud specifically so you can write a negative review? If you took all the time, effort and linden that you've wasted intentionally defaming this product, and put it into your own, you wouldn't ever be bored. You say you had a problem with support, yet you've avoided and rejected all our efforts to genuinely help you. You clearly just want to cause trouble. You must have such a horrible life. You have my pity.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, lea Swordthain said:

Mama Allpa support is the best support in all of Secondlife. I've personally seen securitychief Resident repeatedly spam both groups. Mama Allpa & Mama Allpa Chatters. Spam, abuse and constantly interrupting.

Flag this comment

Comments

on May 25, 2013, AvaAdore Cabassoun said:

Hi Security Chief! This is from our MA chatters group. LL-please check for alts.
18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): v
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?
[18:38] Angelina (securitychief): are you so stupid not to see you cannot mute me?

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Luv Swords said:

Mama Allpa support is always there too help when you need it the only times i have ever seen them not able to help someone was someone that was spamming and causing issues as yourself and others of your alts. MA is the best Support and product i have had the pleasure to use and be part of in SL

Flag this comment

on May 26, 2013, Jarethe Anthony said:

What is amazing, is a person asks for help. They are provided the help, and by people who offer the help from their own time, and free of charge. Then the person asking for help, starts to spam and flame the chat. They are given a warning, multiple times to cease, but continue, then come here to give a negative review, NOT on the functionality of the product, but because they acted childish and were confronted by it. If you mistreat the people that are trying to help you, if you mistreat the other customers that occupy the chat, if you make yourself nothing but a nuisance and then think that posting a poor review solely based on your actions and being held accountable for them. Then seriously, no one needs you around. Making alts just to 'support" your argument when you don't have a valid leg to stand on, just continues to show your immaturity.
MA staff does a LOT for their community, they volunteer their own time to help people on a daily basis, they offer this free of charge. MA brings to you an amazing product at a cost that it more then reasonable too. How many other products can compare and not be charging you fer every little added feature? None.
There is websites provided by MA for added help that explains Every function and status of the product, Again, free for the customers to use. The product is solid. The staff is solid. The price is uncomparable. And I fully agree, that a ban on a person, should extend to every alt of theirs. MA doesn't need trouble makers, SL doesn't need troublemakers.. the world in general doesn't either. Grow up.

Flag this comment

on May 26, 2013, Trin1 said:

This person is a griefer with nothing better to do with his time than bother those of us that use and enjoy the product.

Flag this comment

on May 26, 2013, Karl Tennyson said:

Personally I believe that if you had any personal issue with some of the staff, solve it. I found the mama allpa support really nice, maybe cause I was nice as well asking. Anyway whatever your reasons are trying to defame a product that has proven its quality through time and updates and hard work is simply sad.

Flag this comment

Great product but I am disappointed in support.

Posted May 25, 2013 by SuccessMaker 1 star

I bought Mama Allpa Hud because I wanted to feel how to be pregnant. Great HUD! But when I asked for help, somebody from Mama Allpa support kicked me from the group. After that, the someone banned me from Mama Allpa store just because I had a picture of Lyuboff baby in my picks. I just don't understand why is that such a big deal. Does anybody can explain this to me?

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on May 25, 2013, YT Recreant said:

you have been active in my channels with several accounts, all various spellings of "successmaker" with identical profiles. YOu keep spamming my groups. you keep defaming other brands.
Get a life, seriously!

Flag this comment Delete comment

on May 25, 2013, Neytiri Rosea said:

All the staff members do all they can to help every hud user, but do not maliciously eject or ban anyone, there has to be a solid reason. We all do our best to help EVERYONE and do not discriminate...Mama Allpa staff is the best for supporting customers, even the ones that make our jobs hard

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Nicholle Inglewood said:

You know everyone in the Mama Allpa Community, meaning the Chat room, has had about enough of you. All I can say is, as the owner of YOUR precious "L" babies, think about what you are doing. People look to the owner of things when they buy them and YOU are not setting a very good example. If I was looking to buy a baby, and saw you doing what you do in chat (which is disrupting EVERYONE, by signing in with VARIOUS ALT NAMES and you give yourself away so easily), i certainly would not buy from you!!!!! If your business is doing that poorly, maybe you should take a step back and ask yourself why? We've had enough, give it a rest, move on, better yet, let me give you the name of a GOOD SHRINK who can help you, cause you surely do need it. Mama Allpa doctors, ALWAYS help people when they need it, so you don't have a foot to stand on. Now there's the door, turn and face it and let me stand behind you pleaseeeeee let me do it :D

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, winterthyme said:

This sort of review on MP demonstrates what you are, and how disruptive your behaviour is. MA is support is without peer, and the network of Doctors and Ob-Gyns respond quickly and courteously to genuine requests for information or assistance. Anyone who has used Mama Allpa will know that, and will recognise your review for the ill-disguised "hate mail" it really is. I should delete it if I were you, to save embarrassment.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Lizabeth Buchanan said:

How many times have you bought the hud specifically so you can write a negative review? If you took all the time, effort and linden that you've wasted intentionally defaming this product, and put it into your own, you wouldn't ever be bored. You say you had a problem with support, yet you've avoided and rejected all our efforts to genuinely help you. You clearly just want to cause trouble. You must have such a horrible life. You have my pity.

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Luv Swords said:

You keep coming back like a bad penny....each time MA support tries to help you until you start spamming and complaining and bad mouthing them. You say they do not Support you but on the same token you have never supported them or this product all you seem to do is try to destroy it and the wonderful people that take there time and who are not paid but enjoy helping others. All the MA supports and even YT have showed more control then you have for in RL if you walked into a store and acted like you have they would have you removed by police and you wouldnt ever be allowed back in that store. So get a life grow up and move on

Flag this comment

on May 25, 2013, Maura Serenity said:

The original comment maker is known for creating alts and harassing other members of the community. What a shame.

Flag this comment

on May 26, 2013, Jarethe Anthony said:

I seriously doubt that you were banned just because you had a picture of another product in your profile. If you were spamming the chat, or harassing others in the chat, you would be banned. The support staff doesn't go around kicking people out just for having other products in their profile. Everyone is given a warning as well to cease their disruptive behavior before they are banned. So, if you were banned, you must have ignored the warning and continued disrupting the other customers in the MA chat. In such a case, you are at fault, not the product, which you have even stated in your comment. Is a Great Hud.

Flag this comment

on May 26, 2013, Trin1 said:

This person is a griefer with nothing better to do with his time than bother those of us that use and enjoy the product.

Flag this comment

Smart beyond words..

No Comment - Click to enlarge

And again rating on Marketplace

It seems to be a new trend, that some customers rather rate on marketplace than contacting the creator directly. Now i had on September 5 a rating of 1 star because a HUD was not delivered. And yes, it is stated in my profile what to do in case of non deliveries. And yes, LL removes such ratings upon request.
However, i checked the account, was not even one month old, so i took my time and explained politely the cause. And replaced the item. In the aftermath, i realized, that the replaced item was accepted, the rating was removed, but i never got any response. Not even a "Thank you" - nothing. Just silence.
OK, happens. Today then i receive an IM from said person. That the item does not work. It arrived when i was sleeping.
When i woke up, i tried to IM the customer. Nothing. No response. But, again a 1 star rating. Which has been placed even before i was IMed. Calling my HUD "shit".

Some people....

Marketplace - Ban List - Yes or No?

This blog post refers to that JIRA entry:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3651

Discussed there is the option to extend bans that one has put on an avatar inworld, also to the marketplace. I have read that Jira entry and it kept me thinking for some days now. My opinion is: No.

The motivations why creators of content would want such a ban are different ones. But they all have two things in common:

1. Content creators are frustrated about the behavior of some (a minority) of shoppers, because these rate content unfairly. Either because they are not understanding what the item they are buying is for, or because they are alts of competitors that then buy an item and trash it with the rating down, or they want to put on a cheap rating in the hope that the content creator then refunds the buyer and the rating gets removed.
2. None of the above phenomenons can be really prevented with a banlist. Because, it is really simple to just set up the next alt and repeat the "trick".

Also, closing down the marketplace is not an option really. Those who say "lets focus on the inworld shops, Marketplace does us no good" forget one thing: Clients decide where they buy. And they want it easy and simple. In a world where one has always everything at ones fingertip (or mouseclick) people often want to buy an item because they are just right now, in this moment, in the mood for it. And they just want to have it. Now. At the location where they are. Effortless.

Closing down marketplace would of course drag more people into shops. But, in my opinion, an equally large group of people would then rather not buy at all. All "impulse buyers" would not be around anymore. That would weaken the SL economy. And in the end it could lead to a lot more closing down, than just the marketplace website.

In fact the marketplace has everything that a merchant needs. Easy listing procedures, easy to set up shops, fair pricing. And the rating system that is in place, is great. 

But!

And here is a big but!

The operators of the system fail in keeping an eye of the fair use of the resources and of the rating system. While Linden Lab has published even a guide "How to write a good review" they fail to follow this guide when it comes to check the reviews.

Everyone has seen ratings about that primskirt that gets only 1 star because of one of the following reasons:

• it was not delivered
• it is too small (but has modifiy permissions)
• it is too big (but has modifiy permissions)
• it attaches at the wrong point
• it is not really what the buyer imagined (but is exactly what is shown on the picture and described in the product description)

And no, i do not make primskirts. But i had buyers who rated me poorly because my item did not do something.. which i never said it would do... or because my item behaved *exactly* as described. I offer free demo objects for one of my products, and get an IM "I want a refund, the HUD is not what i imagined" and to my response "why did you not try out the free demo?" i get "money back or you get 1 star". Yes. no kidding.

What is missing, is a review-operating team that removes each and every single rating which is less than 5 stars, as long as it is not reasoned out exactly why that rating has been given. On valid grounds. Like "Product picture showed a primskirt but the prims were not texture properly, which only showed when looking from a different angle than the product picture suggests" or something like that.

Yes that is work. But pushed through consequently, it would dry out pretty fast unfair competition.

For now, as long as that is not in place, i publish screenshots with the names of the 1-star culprits, in my blog, so they are known as deliberate freeloaders and report them then to LL. In most cases, the reviews are removed then. But yes, it is work. Fortunately, this does not occur so very often. But it is annoying each time. A more pro active action, rather than a reaction, of the marketplace team would bring a lot of peace.

As for pushing up inworld stores, the solution can also be simple:

All of you have seen the issue that one searches for example a primskirt with a certain keyword and then gets 10 pages of listings of the same creator with a primskirt that has the keywords, in 180 different colors, each skirt, one marketplace entry. How about installing a guideline or a rule, that is like "place only 1 item and a fat pack with all variations for sale ,the other variations can be bought inworld" ?

That is just a rough drat, and needs a better wording, certainly.

But it would drag more traffic to the shops - if i know, someone has it in their store, then i am more willing to TP there, rather than using the inworld search and walk through 50 shops till i find what i want.

LL has then more land rented out to merchants and merchants have more customers in their inworld malls and all are happy.

Salma continues

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/1554912/reviews/3243288

Don't we love it?

Some days i wake up and am amazed by the .. behaviour of some people.. today for example:

Normally, i try to contact customers and see what made them unhappy, but this.. is just too much and one of the rare cases where i think, SL, or any society with a touch of civilization is not for them.
I fail to even find any will to contact this customer.

Where is this funny?

click to enlarge

This is just one page of some deliveries, which never took place. Marketplace really is not reliable these days. Quite frustrating. Oh, and, the items which are marked as "delivered" but never reached the buyer, are then also of course adding to this, extra.

Marketplace

Received a 1star rating, and followed it up...
the dialog stands for itself, i wil not comment on it further...

Me:: and why do you want your money back?
Customer: becaz i dont want to have a baby nomore becaz my hubby cheated
Customer: so now im returin all the baby stuff
Customer: ect
Me:: and.. uhm.. that is my fault how?
Me:: you know...
Me:: i am working hard, ...
Me:: and the HUD works
Me:: and you can get a baby with another man
Me:: whatever
Me:: but giving me 1 star is like,you blame me for your fate
Me:: is that fair?
Customer: well i dont want the item nomore
Me:: ok, but that is not my fault, you can delete it then, can you not?
Me:: i mean, i am providing here a service
Me:: and you can use it later or not
Customer: i was mad immma rate it but then i have to get my money back
Customer: no i dont want to use it later
Customer: becaz im gay now
Me:: and.. sorry.. but..
Me:: how is that my life?
Me:: i mean
Me:: i did sell you a HUD
Me:: and this is not a game, you bought something
Me:: can you go and buy a car in RL
Me:: drive with it
Me:: and give it back just so?
Customer: well yes if the owner of the car have a reason   not to drive it becaz the parner is not there nomore and now the onwer is gay
Customer: then she will want to refun the car

Inworld shopping vs. Marketplace

Sometimes, one finds really dedicated designers of fashion. They run a blog, have free  group gifts, list items in Marketplace, their inworld shop is of decent design, their stuff is of good quality, for a fair price. Last friday then i came across a blog entry of one of my favorite designers, that she closes her location.
While one can say on one hand, that this is business, i think, this is not a nice development. The designer mentioned above will now offer her items on the marketplace. Which is a shark pool.
The option, that clients can rate items was meant well, for sure. But what does one find more than often? Quality stuff rated poorly, like 1 star, because the buyer did not understand what they bought or just did not like the design how it was made, personally. Or, lets face it, just wanted to bitch. I myself have collected enough experiences of the bad sorts at Marketplace that i tend to not pay so much attention to the "stars" given to a product anymore.
I even found top notch freebie items, that received a 1 star rating.. with reasons like "the delivery failed". On a freebie, 0L$. Yes.
Today, i thought, when i look now for a new outfit, i will again go shopping inworld. It takes more time, yes. But well.. if i simply accept that soon all is on the marketplace, then i will soon miss the next good shop inworld... recognize the work, those creative people put in to make your experience in SL more colorful.. buy inworld.

Just my 2 cents